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[03:07] <stellar-slack> just to chime in on my fidelity brokerage account bid prices are input in decimal. the individual unit price is displayed in 5 decimal places. I'm not sure all brokerages are the same
[03:52] <stellar-slack> I just looked up Charles Schwab broker and they also use 5 decimal places for more accurate reconciliation. to me as far as ledger storage the integer is fine as long as we would know what to mulitply it by to position the decimal point
[04:50] <stellar-slack> @fredolafritte: thanks for starring my project :)
[04:52] <stellar-slack> Can a stellar-core transaction be made from an address that never received a "createAccount" transaction before? if not, that needs to be possible
[05:00] <stellar-slack> why do you want that?
[05:03] <stellar-slack> because of that green fellow here
[05:05] <stellar-slack> if he needs to receive a createaccount tx before being able to participate, it means the entity who sends the createaccount tx is a central authority
[05:06] <stellar-slack> or maybe, if that's technically not feasible, maybe lumen should be renamed to "earth currency" or something
[05:07] <stellar-slack> earth credits
[05:10] <stellar-slack> in the old version of stellard you just send native 20 to the account to activate it. on this version the createaccount is required to get the original funding
[05:11] <stellar-slack> it should be possible to participate without funding
[05:12] <stellar-slack> I think you can as I said you can set the values in stellar-core config
[05:12] <stellar-slack> we just haven't tried it yet
[05:12] <stellar-slack> right ...
[05:13] <stellar-slack> but I assume even if set to zero you would still have to run the createaccount but just not requied to send funds to do it
[05:15] <stellar-slack> so my guess is it won't work since you would have to be a member to create an account, no one could ever become a member since there is no funds
[05:15] <stellar-slack> maybe something like a freindbot would have to be created to open new accounts
[05:34] <stellar-slack> you don't have to get your lumens from a central authority. but all txs require a small lumen fee. so you need some amount before you do anything.
[05:58] <stellar-slack> what if we set the fee to zero?
[05:59] <stellar-slack> then how prevent spamers?
[05:59] <stellar-slack> spam accounts and txs
[06:00] <stellar-slack> who cares about spammer ^^
[06:00] <stellar-slack> just ignore
[06:02] <stellar-slack> the ledger will be filled with terabytes garbage?
[06:04] <stellar-slack> who knows
[06:05] <stellar-slack> who gets to decide what is garbage and what's not?
[06:05] <stellar-slack> a central authority?
[06:05] <stellar-slack> you wont pay for garbage
[06:06] <stellar-slack> createaccountop can be issued by any other account, not central authority
[06:07] <stellar-slack> i care about ledger size because i'm running a stellar-core node.
[06:07] <stellar-slack> storage is cheap but costs.
[06:08] <stellar-slack> i'm running one too
[06:10] <stellar-slack> so at when the core "launches" there'll be a genesis ledger, no?
[06:11] <stellar-slack> how much native currency will be there
[06:14] <stellar-slack> as long as the genesis ledger is not completely empty, there'll be a central authority
[06:20] <stellar-slack> so the live network should either launch with a completely empty genesis ledger... or not at all
[06:23] <stellar-slack> who will pay for the terabytes of storage? Won't be me I"m poor and can't afford the storage nor the bandwidth to run a node with tarabytes. we had the same problem with bitcoin
[06:24] <stellar-slack> empty ledger. str->xlm is on demand
[06:27] <stellar-slack> the way I see it stellar was designed to run on cheap hardware with little overhead so more people could participate with more nodes. otherwise it will only be rich banks that can afford to run nodes
[06:27] <stellar-slack> i see you are still thinking in deprecated ways
[06:28] <stellar-slack> what's a "rich bank"?
[06:28] <stellar-slack> banks trade with debt
[06:28] <stellar-slack> someone who has debt how can he be rich
[06:29] <stellar-slack> a gateway that make profit from stellar. they will be the only ones that could run in tarabytes and remind you it will be slower transactions
[06:29] <stellar-slack> stellar is not-for-profit
[06:29] <stellar-slack> there will be entity that will hook to stellar that will make a profit
[06:29] <stellar-slack> yeah
[06:29] <stellar-slack> that could be you
[06:30] <stellar-slack> not likly me. I'm just for free poker. I'm for giving it away. but my poker won't be free if run in tarabytes
[06:31] <stellar-slack> tarabytes cost more than 4 cents
[06:32] <stellar-slack> anyway, genesis ledger should be empty
[06:32] <stellar-slack> you mean like empty ledger. str->xlm is on demand like lab said? that's fine
[06:33] <stellar-slack> i don't understand what "empty ledger. str->xlm is on demand" means
[06:33] <stellar-slack> i can't parse that
[06:34] <stellar-slack> there is already a distrubution of str on the stellard network that many people already hold. my guess is that when the new network starts there will then be 200 Billion minted STR + XLM
[06:36] <stellar-slack> so?
[06:36] <stellar-slack> so most would belong to Stellar that in a sence like stocks they issued more of them
[06:37] <stellar-slack> diluting the value if pumped into the market
[06:37] <stellar-slack> as long as they are issued as normal assets on the new network instead of built into the genesis ledger as native currency, i think it's okay
[06:39] <stellar-slack> that makes sence you could just buy move the asset of STR into the new network and then just trade it for XLM I guess
[06:39] <stellar-slack> yeah
[06:40] <stellar-slack> Federation can issue XLM as just another asset on the new network
[06:40] <stellar-slack> and the ledger can be completely empty at launch
[06:41] <stellar-slack> so who would be the issure of XLM? anyone?
[06:41] <stellar-slack> the account that belongs to the federation
[06:42] <stellar-slack> anyone could issue an asset with the code "XLM" .. but it would not be the same
[06:42] <stellar-slack> basicly XLM is is just another asset with a fixed issuer with fixed number of total assets held not borowed or loaned
[06:42] <stellar-slack> account belongs to nobody else, but the one hold secret key
[06:42] <stellar-slack> yes
[06:42] <stellar-slack> @lab: yeah thats what i mean
[06:43] <stellar-slack> the account that the federation holds the secret key to
[06:43] <stellar-slack> what do you mean federation?
[06:43] <stellar-slack> The guys at stellar
[06:43] <stellar-slack> I think he means federation is anyone that starts a stellar network in this case stellar
[06:44] <stellar-slack> buhrmi, do you mean the root account initially has 100Bil XLM?
[06:44] <stellar-slack> then yes.
[06:44] <stellar-slack> sdf hold it
[06:45] <stellar-slack> the "root account" would just be any other account
[06:45] <stellar-slack> there's no "root"
[06:46] <stellar-slack> I'm guessing buhrmi doesn't think it's fair that Stellar holds all or most of the 100B that a more fair method would be?
[06:48] <stellar-slack> i think it's not fair to have values assigned to addresses in the genesis ledger
[06:49] <stellar-slack> I'm poor and I see there method with STR or XLM to keep the price down or distribute the cost of operation as a viable method. otherwise the cost will be someplace else and will cost more
[06:49] <stellar-slack> lol why do you always say you're poor
[06:50] <stellar-slack> when your rich you don't care about costs
[06:51] <stellar-slack> i don't think that's true
[06:51] <stellar-slack> when you only make $1 a day at work then maybe you won't go to macdonalds and buy a bigmac you just have to find ways to do it cheaper
[06:54] <stellar-slack> I can see a posibiltity that nodes can be paid for transaction fee's to help pay for there operation maybe that's a better solution to distribute the cost to those that support the network
[06:55] <stellar-slack> lol as long as you keep thinking in dollars and cents...
[06:55] <stellar-slack> Baht and BEER
[06:55] <stellar-slack> there ya go
[06:56] <stellar-slack> so you want the entire system to be in fiat currency with added bitcoin and other assets?
[06:56] <stellar-slack> i never quite understood what "fiat" meant so...
[06:57] <stellar-slack> fiat is a nations currency like USD EUR....
[06:59] <stellar-slack> i don't know
[07:00] <stellar-slack> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money
[07:01] <stellar-slack> my BEER is a comodity currency
[07:02] <stellar-slack> so USD is Fiat currency but at the same time it's PAPER which is commodity currency
[07:03] <stellar-slack> but you can pay tax by paper
[07:03] <stellar-slack> some day it will only be worth the paper it's printed on
[07:03] <stellar-slack> yeah that day isn't far away i think ...
[07:04] <stellar-slack> 2017 is my guess the big crash some think sooner
[07:04] <stellar-slack> 2017 stellar core launch?
[07:04] <stellar-slack> haha
[07:05] <stellar-slack> it wil be launched in weeks
[07:05] <stellar-slack> no 2017 stock markets crash with a total crash of the world finacial system
[07:06] <stellar-slack> so we will need stellar to replace all the worthless money with instant access to comodity or other money if needed
[07:12] <stellar-slack> it matchs
[07:13] <stellar-slack> stellar is for the poors. at that time, the world if full of poors
[07:13] <stellar-slack> :v:
[07:14] <stellar-slack> s/if/is
[07:16] <stellar-slack> ... as long as they got internet and power :P
[07:16] <stellar-slack> need solar-powered stellar node
[07:20] <stellar-slack> and a mesh network to allow not having to use any centralized Internet
[07:24] <stellar-slack> I was thinking as at this time we only have like 10 nodes. what would stop an entity from bringing up 20 cores all runing on accelerated time and manipulate transactions? maybe it would take more cores?
[07:25] <stellar-slack> don't worry. the world won't crash. you guys have us, diligent chinese.
[07:25] <stellar-slack> yay i wanna go to china
[07:26] <stellar-slack> it's not far for you buhrmi jump in a boat and check it out
[07:27] <stellar-slack> do you have haze immunity?
[07:27] <stellar-slack> yoyo china, i heard u guys are friends with north korea
[07:27] <stellar-slack> haze?
[07:29] <stellar-slack> http://images.china.cn/attachement/jpg/site1000/20131224/7427ea2109fe14233e322a.jpg
[07:29] <stellar-slack> oh ha ha
[07:30] <stellar-slack> i have one mask like this
[07:30] <stellar-slack> that sucks, u should move
[07:30] <stellar-slack> not healthy
[07:30] <stellar-slack> move to north korea?
[07:30] <stellar-slack> LOL
[07:30] <stellar-slack> I lived in LA for 20 years it was about the same
[07:31] <stellar-slack> tell kim jun un about stellar
[07:31] <stellar-slack> maybe not quite that bad
[07:33] <stellar-slack> where are you living now?
[07:41] <stellar-slack> me? I now reside in Pattaya Thailand
[07:43] <stellar-slack> i envy you.
[07:50] <stellar-slack> @jed seems your reset of the old stellard has also broken the freindbot
[07:53] <stellar-slack> so my pokerthacc is dead until we get some funding
[08:10] <stellar-slack> on the positive side it looks like you fixed the http://test.stellar.org:9002|test.stellar.org:9002 SSL encrytion problem as seen with openssl s_client -connect http://test.stellar.org:9002|test.stellar.org:9002
[08:23] <stellar-slack> lol 16 peers now
[08:36] <stellar-slack> I think that count is not correct as it seems it sees all my old address when my ISP gives me a new ip
[08:40] <stellar-slack> as today my IP is you will not tomaro it will still be there but my IP changes every 24 hours
[08:40] <stellar-slack> ah...
[08:41] <stellar-slack> so I think I'm listed 5 times
[12:05] <stellar-slack> StellarBase.verify('string', 'string', 'string') -> signature.toJSON is not a function
[12:05] <stellar-slack> what kind of arguments is it expecting? (using the javascript sdk)
[12:11] <stellar-slack> when using in a browser, `verify` function is actually a wrapper around `nacl.sign.detached.verify`. here is an example of usage: https://github.com/dchest/tweetnacl-js/blob/24b9b3b3773f5e728745ed6f77add2cd7a584206/test/08-sign.quick.js#L69
[12:20] <stellar-slack> still now clue ... lol .. assuming i have the public key in the normal string format like 'SBLBFPBVZOPXF75SKX2R3EZDCQT4WE3FGDECDDHGLRQSNAXLHBCT4ZHI'
[12:21] <stellar-slack> how do i get it into a format i can use at argument?
[12:51] <stellar-slack> @buhrmi: sorry, I forgot about you. I will send an example in a minute.
[12:51] <stellar-slack> cool, thanks... also whats the difference between secret key and secret seed? when do i need what? -.-
[12:59] <stellar-slack> https://gist.github.com/bartekn/6f0239f6502ae9f3b4b7
[13:04] <stellar-slack> StellarBase.sign('derp', keypair.rawSeed()) -> Uncaught Error: bad secret key size
[13:05] <stellar-slack> how to you generate keypair?
[13:05] <stellar-slack> it's your exact example
[13:06] <stellar-slack> copy/pasted
[13:06] <stellar-slack> ``` $ node buhrmi.js Signature: 81a9c899c3adf02073735146e37154b5db43c5753140909a597a419ec40a5efc9115af4a75de7d7e7590b15d8c60f309e1207f2c3088791de9d491547d5a5800 OK! ```
[13:06] <stellar-slack> i'm doing it in the browser console
[13:06] <stellar-slack> oh
[13:07] <stellar-slack> ok, one sec. it can be a bug.
[13:13] <stellar-slack> also, i need to get the signature from hex representation back into the internal representation
[13:13] <stellar-slack> i want to verify a hex signature
[13:13] <stellar-slack> `var signature = new Buffer(hexSignature, "hex”);`
[13:14] <stellar-slack> ok, thought so :)
[13:15] <stellar-slack> secret key and secret seed I think are the same thing
[13:16] <stellar-slack> but raw_seed keypair = Stellar::KeyPair.from_raw_seed("astingoflettersthatisatleastlong")
[13:20] <stellar-slack> ok I now have both horizon and go-horizon installed and tested now maybe I can run them?
[13:22] <stellar-slack> oh I think I will first have to convert my stellar-core to use postgres
[13:22] <stellar-slack> instead of sqlite
[13:27] <stellar-slack> secret seed=secret key != private key
[13:28] <stellar-slack> private key != secret seed ?
[13:29] <stellar-slack> no
[13:30] <stellar-slack> seed can be arbitrary, private key is not.
[13:31] <stellar-slack> arbitrary like raw_seed?
[13:31] <stellar-slack> no, i meant raw_seed, seed is encoded by raw_seed and it's crc protected.
[13:38] <stellar-slack> when I create a new account pair I think it returns what they call the secret seed that can be viewed with keypair.seed. maybe there is a keypair.key ?
[13:39] <stellar-slack> all I ever need is the keypair.address and keypair.seed to do all transactions I know
[13:41] <stellar-slack> @buhrmi: I’ve just released stellar-base v0.3.10 to npm and bower which includes `Keypair.rawSecretKey()` method. update to this version, change `keypair.rawSeed()` to `keypair.rawSecretKey()` in my example and it should work. sorry for a confusion.
[13:43] <stellar-slack> is there anything that prevents my js-stellar-base PR to be merged ? There is a blocker bug regarding setting the trust in the vanilla code
[13:46] <stellar-slack> on testnet I see only my added trustline and one other mine being BEER. so how was TEST trustline created? was that with jr-stellar-base vanilla code?
[13:48] <stellar-slack> trustline with no limit ?
[13:48] <stellar-slack> let me check
[13:48] <stellar-slack> the currency is TEST
[13:51] <stellar-slack> oh it's just an offer from GBBM6BKZPEHWYO3E3YKREDPQXMS4VK35YLNU7NFBRI26RAN7GI5POFBB
[13:52] <stellar-slack> but there is no trustline for that account
[13:52] <stellar-slack> how can you create an offer without a trustline? oh unless you are the issuer?
[13:59] <stellar-slack> seems I recall on stellard you couldn't directly create an offer from the issuer I had to setup trustlines and issuer to another to allow offer and trade
[14:00] <stellar-slack> not that there is anything wrong with it
[14:42] <stellar-slack> @sacarlson: do you by any chance know Dr. Iain Corness? (an somewhat prominent aussie expat living in Pattaya) He’s a family friend
[14:43] <stellar-slack> not off hand
[14:43] <stellar-slack> does he hand out at the beach?
[14:44] <stellar-slack> he writes for the expat news there (pattaya mail?) and sometimes does local tv spots
[14:45] <stellar-slack> he’s an old dude now, I don’t think he spends any time on the beach :)
[14:45] <stellar-slack> oh I think I know who you mean, I've only seen him a few times in person but never met him
[14:46] <stellar-slack> my next door nabor know him
[14:46] <stellar-slack> :) nice. small world
[14:47] <stellar-slack> so if I bring up horizon the ruby one it will run standalone won't it without go-horizon?
[14:48] <stellar-slack> I would say no. It runs, but it doesn’t support any of the read endpoints… it just imports history in the background and helps to post transactions to stellar-core
[14:50] <stellar-slack> But the first thing I’ll be doing after we get our next launch out will be to move the both of those pieces into go-horizon, then ruby will be gone from the server side for good
[14:50] <stellar-slack> (that’s just to keep you up to speed with our plans)
[14:51] <stellar-slack> what is a "read endpoint"? will it do standard transactions? payments, addtrust, offer
[14:52] <stellar-slack> the read endpoints are anything besides `POST /transactions`. Any url to read historical information or account information
[14:52] <stellar-slack> ok so it can run standalone and maybe at least get an account ballance?
[14:53] <stellar-slack> I'm just looking to setup one at a time
[14:53] <stellar-slack> to get both to work at the same time might add complications
[14:54] <stellar-slack> ah! yeah, you can get it working by itself
[14:55] <stellar-slack> ok well I have both installed now but was going to try bring that up first. unless maybe I can try bring go-horizon up standalone. what will it do alone?
[14:55] <stellar-slack> the `GET /accounts/:ADDRESS` endpoint works in ruby horizon still, although the content of the response is out of date with the design
[14:55] <stellar-slack> go-horizon will not do anything alone
[14:55] <stellar-slack> ok
[14:55] <stellar-slack> it depends upon ruby horizon to import data for it
[14:56] <stellar-slack> so I'll bring up horizon ruby alone first, test it a bit then try bring up go-horizon
[14:56] <stellar-slack> sounds like a plan. I know you’re mostly on the opposite schedule as me, but I’ll try to follow along with your chats with other members to see if I can help
[14:57] <stellar-slack> I'm about to move my stellar-core to postgress in a moment. not sure if I need to create the database first or if it will do it
[14:58] <stellar-slack> you need to create the database manually, and you can use stellar-core to create the tables by launching it using `stellar-core --newdb`
[14:58] <stellar-slack1> you need to create the database manually, and you can use stellar-core to create the tables by launching it using `stellar-core --newdb`
[14:59] <stellar-slack1> I don’t know what that’s about
[14:59] <stellar-slack> I don’t know what that’s about
[15:00] <stellar-slack1> looks like a loop?
[15:13] <stellar-slack1> looks like the move to postres is working with ETA: 137 seconds but I don't see the tables filled in from pgadmin yet.
[15:18] <stellar-slack1> I now have "state" : "Synced!" but still don't see data in stellar postgres database so I must be looking at the wrong one
[15:25] <stellar-slack1> hmm, perhaps you’re not using the config file you think you are and the one that is actually being used is still configured for sqlite?
[15:25] <stellar-slack1> by default, it will use the `stellar-core.cfg` file in your current working directry
[15:25] <stellar-slack1> you can override it with a flag though
[15:26] <stellar-slack1> no none of the sqlite files are showing up so I assume it's on postgres I'm new to postgres and this pgadmin so
[15:26] <stellar-slack1> my script points it to the config I want
[15:27] <stellar-slack1> cool
[15:27] <stellar-slack1> if you paste me the db connection string you’re using I can give you a little command line snippet (provided you have bash and psql installed) that tests to see if the db is being populated
[15:30] <stellar-slack1> `psql postgres://sacarlson:password@localhost/stellar -c "SELECT count(*) FROM accounts”`
[15:31] <stellar-slack1> It should print something like: ` count ------- 5 (1 row)`
[15:32] <stellar-slack1> if successful
[15:32] <stellar-slack1> count ------- 154 (1 row)
[15:32] <stellar-slack1> so, you’re up and running… not sure what’s wrong with pgadmin though
[15:33] <stellar-slack1> I think it's there is just I must be looking in the wrong place with pgadmin
[15:33] <stellar-slack1> I’ve got no experience with that tool, so I won’t be able to help :)
[15:33] <stellar-slack1> probly some brain fart on my side
[15:34] <stellar-slack1> there are many different databases now with different users but I looked in most of them
[15:34] <stellar-slack1> I'll try another postgres gui tool to verify
[16:19] <stellar-slack1> I figured it out after install of phppgadmin it was easy to find but in pgadmin its baried deep under like subdirectories postgres>sacarlson>stellar>Schemas>public>tables
[16:28] <stellar-slack1> :+1:
[21:45] <stellar-slack1> More go in PR if anyone wants to review: https://github.com/stellar/go-horizon/pull/78
[22:32] <stellar-slack1> I wanted to start a discussion about “amounts” in client libraries and horizon, please feel free to add your thoughts at https://github.com/stellar/stellar-protocol/issues/20
[22:33] <stellar-slack1> Long story short: I want to start expressing the "7-digits of precision” convention in horizon and the client libraries
[23:18] <stellar-slack1> Upcoming breaking change: https://github.com/stellar/horizon/pull/45
[23:19] <stellar-slack1> It will require a re-import of data and will change all of the IDs in horizon
[23:19] <stellar-slack1> anyone who would like to review some ruby, I would appreciate it!
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