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[02:19] <stellar-slack> is possible to use a stellar account with other currency without EVER actually receiving stellar
[02:23] <stellar-slack> receiving stellar you mean STR or lunes? you must have a min ballance of native to allow any other currency
[02:23] <stellar-slack> i mean the native currency, whatever it is
[02:25] <stellar-slack> so if i want to encourage people to make an account on the stellar network, i somehow need to give them some native currency, otherwise they can't receive anything ...
[02:25] <stellar-slack> correct
[02:27] <stellar-slack> lol ... so that would mean .... either get into bed with whoever has authority over giving away native currency... oooor, bootstrap my own network?
[02:27] <stellar-slack> with my own native currency?
[02:28] <stellar-slack> or run from testnet as I do with my P2P poker system at least to test it
[02:29] <stellar-slack> with testnet they have a friend bot that gives you free STR or lunes
[02:29] <stellar-slack> yeah but they won't have that on the live system lol
[02:30] <stellar-slack> no if you want to run from live you would have to buy a min 20 STR that cost 1/3 of cent each
[02:30] <stellar-slack> so... new native currency it is
[02:31] <stellar-slack> so you would need like 7 cents for each account you wanted to open on live
[02:32] <stellar-slack> yeah ... no
[02:33] <stellar-slack> ?
[02:39] <stellar-slack> shouldn't be *too* hard to initialize a new network with a new native currency right?
[02:39] <stellar-slack> neither STR nor lumen, but something new, disconnected
[02:40] <stellar-slack> you don't need a new native just setup trust and create a new currency like I did with CHP
[02:40] <stellar-slack> but yes you could but then you must have computers that run 24/7 to keep you system running
[02:40] <stellar-slack> yeah but new accounts i want to interact with gonna need some initial native currency
[02:41] <stellar-slack> yes again testnet or you can run a standalone system with your own native
[02:42] <stellar-slack> but hosting and electric is more than 7cents per account unless the number of accounts is big enuf to break even
[02:43] <stellar-slack> and the old testnet is very stable and it's free
[02:43] <stellar-slack> legacy stellar testnet very stable
[02:45] <stellar-slack> mhh i'd rather have my own native currency
[02:46] <stellar-slack> it's best at this point on the new system stellar-core to run standallone that has your own native in it
[02:47] <stellar-slack> yeah sounds like a good idea
[02:48] <stellar-slack> but only due to how often they reboot the stellar-core testnet. if you want your friends to use that then you need to keep your computer on 24/7 and it will eat up disk space
[02:48] <stellar-slack> but if you have 20gb of space to kill then go for it
[02:49] <stellar-slack> yeah can just set up some nodes on aws, vultr, digital ocean
[02:49] <stellar-slack> should be redundant enough
[02:49] <stellar-slack> you need the more powerful not free ones I think
[02:49] <stellar-slack> they don't have free ones
[02:49] <stellar-slack> lol
[02:49] <stellar-slack> amazon en2 or ??
[02:50] <stellar-slack> oh you have money to burn then cool
[02:50] <stellar-slack> yeah well ... legacy money
[02:50] <stellar-slack> I'm poor so find ways to spend less
[02:51] <stellar-slack> who needs legacy money when u got your own native currency haha
[02:51] <stellar-slack> like living under the bridge you suggested that's what I do
[02:52] <stellar-slack> should have a real-life deprication warning when trying to buy something with traditional currency
[02:53] <stellar-slack> I calculated a lifetime of 100 years of poker transactions on stellar would cost less than $6usd
[02:53] <stellar-slack> on live stellar
[02:55] <stellar-slack> what's a good name for the new currency
[02:56] <stellar-slack> GC? Global Currency?
[02:56] <stellar-slack> native ha ha as I can't keep up with all the names on each network
[02:56] <stellar-slack> but I call my asset CHP stands for chips
[02:56] <stellar-slack> GC = Global Credit
[02:57] <stellar-slack> PCHP ... Potato chips
[02:57] <stellar-slack> BM (BurnMe)?
[02:57] <stellar-slack> yes the new network you can have 4 leters or 12 letters for asset names too
[02:57] <stellar-slack> not 2?
[02:58] <stellar-slack> how many accounts do you plan to run on your network, @buhrmi ?
[02:58] <stellar-slack> no standard currency all have 3 leters but 12 letters allows assets like stocks and bonds to also be listed
[02:58] <stellar-slack> @zealord: one for everybody who wants to join
[02:59] <stellar-slack> as i second @sacarlson that it need to be large enough to take advantage over live Stellar network
[02:59] <stellar-slack> if around 4 cents/account
[02:59] <stellar-slack> if => of
[02:59] <stellar-slack> yeah... let's say ... uhm
[02:59] <stellar-slack> for now ... 5 ... billion?
[03:01] <stellar-slack> 5B accounts?
[03:01] <stellar-slack> really?o:)
[03:02] <stellar-slack> yeah well not in the beginning, of course...
[03:02] <stellar-slack> but these days it's easy to scale the hardware
[03:02] <stellar-slack> at present live stellar only has 600k accounts
[03:03] <stellar-slack> that's not so many
[03:03] <stellar-slack> how did you get that number sacarlson?
[03:03] <stellar-slack> (query on live DB?)
[03:04] <stellar-slack> I'm not sure if I read it or when I setup a stellard and looked that the db
[03:04] <stellar-slack> it may not be accurate
[03:05] <stellar-slack> i assume the number should be much higher
[03:05] <stellar-slack> I took it offline but the database is still resident and I can look at it from that date
[03:05] <stellar-slack> it was only a snapshot of that time
[03:06] <stellar-slack> I don't have the resources here to run stellard as it require 8gb ram I only have 4gb
[03:10] <stellar-slack> back to buhrmi issue; i think it's much more convenient (time & effort wise) to run your app on top of live stellar network at least when your total accounts on the system is less than 1 or 2 millions;
[03:10] <stellar-slack> ..... mhh let me think real quick ...
[03:10] <stellar-slack> naaahh
[03:11] <stellar-slack> cos at least, user acquisition cost tend to be much higher than several cents
[03:14] <stellar-slack> and when buhrmi systems goes down from lack of nodes people will leave it and go for more stable networks like testnet
[03:14] <stellar-slack> (not to mention devops time/effort);
[03:15] <stellar-slack> yeah so gonna need lotsa nodes
[03:15] <stellar-slack> and when I just looked again at stellar.db I see 1.3mil commited objects. not sure if that means there are 1.3M accounts or what that is
[03:15] <stellar-slack> testnet is as it name suggest, for testing; and it's reset from time to time
[03:16] <stellar-slack> and my system never got sync due to lack of resources
[03:16] <stellar-slack> mhh so if i want to bootstrap a new network without inflated currency, i prob gonna have to fork stellar-core right?
[03:17] <stellar-slack> zealord: yes true but legacy testnet is very stable and I'm sure more stable than buhrmi's network will be after he get's bord of using all his disk space and resouces he will turn it off
[03:18] <stellar-slack> he will want his internet bandwidth back so he can start watching porn videos again
[03:18] <stellar-slack> lol
[03:18] <stellar-slack> no need for that
[03:19] <stellar-slack> that was only an example
[03:22] <stellar-slack> anther option is you can be a node on testnet so if they decide to reset testnet you can just convert to standalone to keep your original assets. that would provide you stability in the event your system went down
[03:23] <stellar-slack> nah
[03:23] <stellar-slack> ok run your network then and I'll test it out for you
[03:24] <stellar-slack> I'll point my poker system at it and see if you can handleit
[03:30] <stellar-slack> awesome :P
[03:31] <stellar-slack> want to modify the core to have no inflation and no fees
[03:31] <stellar-slack> can do
[03:32] <stellar-slack> with no fees then you don't need native currency
[03:32] <stellar-slack> can take that out and only have assets
[03:44] <stellar-slack> then you're reinventing (or reverse the wheel) and abandon years of enhancement to the system
[03:46] <stellar-slack> it's ok if you want to do it purely for fun & experiment; but in case you're serious, fees & native currency is used as a anti-spam mechanism; which is a must for any large scale system
[03:47] <stellar-slack> so what you're trying to do contradict your goal
[03:47] <stellar-slack> yes we learned that in bitcoin
[03:48] <stellar-slack> I told you he would get bord of it and shut it down but he will learn by trying
[03:48] <stellar-slack> as I did when I branched bitcoin to multicoin I learned alot
[04:06] <stellar-slack> social network of trust is a very interesting concept but lot of work; and as a rule of thumb in the bootstrap stage; it's more efficient to concentrate your effort in building the prototype(or mvp) and delegate the 'infrastructure issue' to main stellar network; at least until he could attract certain amount of users to his network (several thousands?)
[04:07] <stellar-slack> Hey @sacarlson, I'm sure you didn't realize, but this kind of comment: "he will want his internet bandwidth back so he can start watching porn videos again" isn't okay here. Feel free to take a look at the community guidelines if you'd like more info https://www.stellar.org/community-guidelines/
[04:07] <stellar-slack> ok sorry eva
[04:07] <stellar-slack> np :)
[04:08] <stellar-slack> 4 cents for an account in the main network is just a fraction of user acquisition cost
[04:09] <stellar-slack> just my 2 stellars/lumens;
[04:09] <stellar-slack> is that what it's down to now? didn't look at the price as of late
[04:12] <stellar-slack> yes $0.0368 for an account now per coingecko price
[04:23] <stellar-slack> (as user acquisition cost normally goes up from few dollars; which is 50-100 times the 'infrastructure' cost in this case)
[04:36] <stellar-slack> i don't think spam gonna be an issue
[04:37] <stellar-slack> maybe not but the 25 cents a day I pay for electric to run my computer would buy me alot of accounts
[04:37] <stellar-slack> that's not counting the $1 a day I pay for Internet bandwidth
[04:38] <stellar-slack> being I only have about 50 friends in the entire world I could give them all accounts for free and save what I would have spent on two days running a standalone system
[04:40] <stellar-slack> mhhh... any starting point where to look in the code to remove the native currency from stellar-core?
[04:40] <stellar-slack> grep -r native *
[04:40] <stellar-slack> haha
[04:40] <stellar-slack> from root of stellar-core git
[04:41] <stellar-slack> stellar-core with native currency .. would just be named "core" :)
[04:41] <stellar-slack> good name
[04:42] <stellar-slack> *without
[04:43] <stellar-slack> or being stellar is big you can make yours micro-core or free-core
[04:44] <stellar-slack> yeah
[04:44] <stellar-slack> free-core
[04:46] <stellar-slack> I would think what you would want is that fee's are free until trafic gets to a theshold then fee need to apply. after a timeout the spam transactions would be canceled. when trafic stops fee's go back to zero
[04:47] <stellar-slack> so people can use the network for free if they don't care about time
[04:48] <stellar-slack> but I thought that's how it sort of is
[05:08] <stellar-slack> no
[05:08] <stellar-slack> no fees
[05:08] <stellar-slack> maybe open-core is a better name
[05:31] <stellar-slack> maybe before you rewrite the world buhrmi you might want to do a test transaction and see if you can even send anything with the present code. I'll send you my testnet account number see if you can send me native
[05:34] <stellar-slack> k
[05:34] <stellar-slack> I'm not even hooked to the new stellar-core network with accounts, I can only provide you an account on legacy testnet
[05:35] <stellar-slack> oh wait I might be able to create an account
[05:35] <stellar-slack> horizon is built on the new one, right?
[05:35] <stellar-slack> yes
[05:35] <stellar-slack> they have a horizon server running that we can simply curl against i think
[05:37] <stellar-slack> I did have some horizon accounts but they have already been reset since I created them
[05:38] <stellar-slack> oh from the looks of it the stellar horizon is still broken
[05:41] <stellar-slack> http://apiary.io|apiary.io looks to still be set to base58 also, so until I get my stellar-core-commander code running we can't play
[05:42] <stellar-slack> without the freindbot working I'm not sure how you can play with just curl
[05:43] <stellar-slack> maybe they just moved it? do you know where the freindbot is now?
[05:48] <stellar-slack> ok I found it so my new account is GAJYPMJOWAAGCXMB7UYP63LIMTYPXMGIBMYGQRW7QBF5AVSO7S3IRKIP
[05:48] <stellar-slack> so send me some "USD"
[05:49] <stellar-slack> or 20 native to start then send me 200 CHP
[05:49] <stellar-slack> can't even find the api endpoint to create an acc
[05:50] <stellar-slack> yes I had it bookmarked wrong here too it's: https://www.stellar.org/galaxy/
[05:51] <stellar-slack> that will at least get you to the friendbot needed to get started
[05:53] <stellar-slack> oh lol u don't even have to talk to the api to generate keys? ^^
[05:53] <stellar-slack> no
[05:53] <stellar-slack> well you could
[06:03] <stellar-slack> so on apiary i can't find any api to send stuff
[06:03] <stellar-slack> not so easy ah
[06:04] <stellar-slack> they're all GET requests to look at stuff
[06:04] <stellar-slack> maybe stuff in horizon source code
[06:04] <stellar-slack> yes you have to create signed transactions in base32 to send the api to do transactions of sending native or other assets
[06:05] <stellar-slack> that's why I'm working on stellar-core-commander that I plan to interface to horizon
[06:07] <stellar-slack> grr and if you do something wrong the horizon testnet just sends back a 500 :O
[06:08] <stellar-slack> last commit 9 days ago
[06:09] <stellar-slack> well for some errors it sends back base32 error coded streams the need to be decoded on the client side
[06:10] <stellar-slack> basicly the same thing you see when you attach direct to stellar-core
[06:28] <stellar-slack> aren't client-facing apis supposed to be ... *ahem* ... easy to use? ^^
[06:29] <stellar-slack> no I guess they are ment to be used through java scripts on the clients browser
[06:30] <stellar-slack> and those should be easy to use I guess
[06:30] <stellar-slack> but I have yet to see one
[06:31] <stellar-slack> that hooks to stellar-core
[06:31] <stellar-slack> buhrmi: what are you trying to do? generate keys?
[06:32] <stellar-slack> make a transaction with curl
[06:33] <stellar-slack> where are you getting stuck?
[06:34] <stellar-slack> i can't find information about how to do that, more specifically, which parameters the api endpoint (POST /transactions, i assume) expects
[06:35] <stellar-slack> the apiary doc only lists GET requests at the moment
[06:36] <stellar-slack> so you have to build the tx before you submit it to horizon. this shows you an example of doing that in javascript: https://github.com/stellar/js-stellar-lib/tree/master/docs
[06:36] <stellar-slack> ah, perfect, thanks
[06:37] <stellar-slack> sorry the docs aren't really in order right now. We are in the process of writing them all and should push a big update to them in the next week or so
[06:37] <stellar-slack> 大丈夫 笑
[07:19] <stellar-slack> var server = new StellarLib.Server({port: 3000}); => TypeError: Server configuration is not an Object
[07:26] <stellar-slack> buhrmi: I don't get that on my end. Just tried with https://raw.githubusercontent.com/stellar/js-stellar-lib/master/dist/stellar-lib.js
[07:29] <stellar-slack> maybe the package in npm is old
[07:32] <stellar-slack> ``` var server = new StellarLib.Server({secure: true, hostname: "http://horizon-testnet.stellar.org|horizon-testnet.stellar.org", port: 443}); server.loadAccount("GDF5FGKA6ZE6XQRQIHZBI7IRQQL7OKDKQHFVBBGTR2DIRZJBHP5YTIOD") .then(function (account) { console.log(account) }) => Account {address: "GDF5FGKA6ZE6XQRQIHZBI7IRQQL7OKDKQHFVBBGTR2DIRZJBHP5YTIOD", sequence: 1133334495232000} ```
[07:33] <stellar-slack> same error ... using stellar-lib from npm
[07:38] <stellar-slack> gonna build myself
[07:47] <stellar-slack> yeah, looks that way. dist was 29 days ago, npm shows 2 months
[07:49] <stellar-slack> nobody complained? lol
[07:50] <stellar-slack> can u push it to npm?
[07:59] <stellar-slack> I'll get it updated tomorrow
[08:19] <stellar-slack> good work buhrmi: keep them on there toes
[08:34] <stellar-slack> this results in a 500 from horizon
[12:30] <stellar-slack> I can only help you with ruby, I'm not tried the java stuf yet
[12:31] <stellar-slack> but the main guys I think will be online soon
[12:52] <stellar-slack> I made some progress on getting stellar-core-commander to work but now I'm getting this error: 2015-08-20T19:17:30.235 startup [139815156230016] [default] FATAL Got an exception: invalid quorum set definition [main.cpp:405]
[12:53] <stellar-slack> full results can be seen here: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4pSHwxHXW9SflgyQzZfa1ZQQml6NU42QTczWl9IZndsRzNfaVQxb09LUkIyWWNhODQ5Rjg&usp=sharing
[12:56] <stellar-slack> @sacarlson: I'd usually see that on an out of order config
[12:57] <stellar-slack> Like a non-quorum entry under the [quorum] section in the toml
[12:57] <stellar-slack> Can't open that on my phone though. If you paste just the config I might be able to spot it
[12:58] <stellar-slack> ok I'll try it's on virtualbox and had some trouble just getting here
[12:58] <stellar-slack> but I see no thrshold value
[13:00] <stellar-slack> is that better?
[13:01] <stellar-slack> I'm just running the simple example
[13:12] <stellar-slack> all the example configs I see THRESHOLD=X under quorum_set so maybe this is the problem? if so what changes in example script or other are needed to change it?
[13:27] <stellar-slack> I think I've found where I might edit the config in stellar-core-commander in file local_process.rb at about line 180
[13:28] <stellar-slack> Could be the missing threshold. Are you using the latest of both scc and core?
[13:28] <stellar-slack> Could also be some disagreement in what the config should look like if one of the two is a little older
[13:29] <stellar-slack> no not the core just the latest stellar-core-commander, I had problems in compile and other in the later core
[13:29] <stellar-slack> I've already been running the stellar-core with my other code and it was working
[13:32] <stellar-slack> The delivery pipeline shows 0.0.1-118-8a1bc71c as mostly passing so scc should be able to drive that version
[13:33] <stellar-slack> The last part is the stellar-core git sha
[13:34] <stellar-slack> ok and is this from docker or from local as I see the config code is not the same on each
[13:35] <stellar-slack> but I'll give the above a try also
[13:49] <stellar-slack> The pipeline is all docker based. So could also be the local driver didn't get updated or something
[13:52] <stellar-slack> I made some modifications to the config and got it to run now. it seems this version of core is missing some features so I just took those lines out
[13:53] <stellar-slack> I havn't looked at all the results yet
[13:53] <stellar-slack> but the logs look good
[13:55] <stellar-slack> my real goal is to point it at horizon so I won't really need these config things
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