Logged Conversation (all times UTC)
[00:30] <stellar-slack> Thanks @joyce and @eva . Good to see you guys too.
[00:33] <stellar-slack> Ohai @ainghia1308, welcome to the Stellar party
[01:11] <stellar-slack> who is Rabelais?
[01:19] <stellar-slack> more will be revealed about Rabelais soon :simple_smile: @lab
[01:21] <stellar-slack> code name of stellar-core? algorithm name of new consensus?
[01:22] <stellar-slack> cool name
[01:23] <stellar-slack> he's stroopy's friend
[01:24] <stellar-slack> this is stroopy, for reference
[01:27] <stellar-slack> cute
[01:28] <stellar-slack> I love them! that's all our designer Romina :simple_smile:
[01:37] <stellar-slack> me too. i'd like make some silicone dolls of stroopy and rabelais and sell in STR.
[01:38] <stellar-slack> will i get the license? :simple_smile:
[01:38] <stellar-slack> It's all openly licensed!
[01:43] <stellar-slack> thanks vanessa
[01:56] <stellar-slack> Why the name Rabelais? Last I remember I read Gargantua and Pantagruel when I was a kid :smile:
[01:58] <stellar-slack> That is a question for @jessica - she is the English PhD on the team :simple_smile:
[02:00] <Kwelstr> wow nice!
[02:19] <stellar-slack> Welcome siko
[06:05] <stellar-slack> oh..what happend
[06:06] <stellar-slack> new consensus twitter withdrawed?
[06:06] <stellar-slack> and https://www.stellar.org/galaxy/ is not ready
[06:23] <stellar-slack> today is D-day?
[08:27] <stellar-slack> Hi everybody :simple_smile:
[10:35] <stellar-slack> anttipennanen: hello
[12:07] <stellar-slack> Hello Antti
[12:47] <stellar-slack> Greetings from Finland :simple_smile:
[15:16] <stellar-slack> Bonjour @anttipennanen what brings you here?
[15:36] <stellar-slack> Oooh hello from California @anttipennanen
[15:49] <stellar-slack> We're planning to utilize Stellar in MONI (our company) with @sirius :simple_smile:
[15:51] <stellar-slack> Is this you guys? https://getmoni.com/
[15:58] <stellar-slack> No, that's not us :simple_smile:
[15:59] <stellar-slack> We'll be in http://moni.com|moni.com in near future
[15:59] <stellar-slack> @anttipennanen: subscribed to your newsletter!
[15:59] <stellar-slack> Thanks! :simple_smile:
[16:00] <stellar-slack> me too @anttipennanen
[16:09] <stellar-slack> Introducing …. the new Stellar Consensus Protocol proof & code: distributed infrastructure for money! https://www.stellar.org/blog/stellar-consensus-protocol-proof-code/
[16:09] <stellar-slack> confetti:
[16:09] <stellar-slack> http://giphy.com/gifs/reaction-spoilers-outlander-LSNqpYqGRqwrS
[16:11] <stellar-slack> Exciting :simple_smile: Reading the code!
[16:12] <stellar-slack> **celebration**
[16:15] <stellar-slack> right?
[16:15] <stellar-slack> well, I mean, there's still a ton to do
[16:15] <stellar-slack> but it's nice to be over that particular milestone :simple_smile:
[16:15] <stellar-slack> :simple_smile:
[16:21] <stellar-slack> thank you Stellar team for the incredible amount of hard work and love you all poured into the paper and new code :heart:
[16:21] <stellar-slack1> thank you Stellar team for the incredible amount of hard work and love you all poured into the paper and new code :heart:
[16:34] <stellar-slack1> I was under the impression that Stelllar adopting this new protocol meant that the Ripple protocol was not secure. Is that true? If so, how is Ripple not secure? Thank you.
[16:50] <stellar-slack1> ripple protocol defines correctness in a way we weren't comfortable with the analysis of. I wouldn't generalize from that to a statement about security levels -- very simple bugs often undermine the security of otherwise-good systems -- but we find the new protocol much easier to reason about the correctness of.
[16:52] <stellar-slack1> Kudos to the team for your great amount of work in the last couple of months. you rock!
[16:52] <stellar-slack1> @zealord: :heart:
[16:52] <stellar-slack1> thank you!
[16:53] <stellar-slack1> @graydon thank you for the explanation
[16:54] <stellar-slack1> @vanessa :simple_smile:. Now i know that an Edtech guru is on the spaceship.
[16:55] <stellar-slack1> it's true
[16:55] <stellar-slack1> also, that image is the best thing
[16:55] <stellar-slack1> nice to meet you @zealord. thanks for the welcome!
[16:57] <stellar-slack1> number n, define the permuted id of a node v to be H(i,n, v).```
[16:57] <stellar-slack1> ```Let H be a cryptographic hash function. For a given slot i and ballot
[16:57] <stellar-slack1> Any chance of a pointer to where this is implemented in code and perhaps some discussion on how it works? Would be much appreciated :simple_smile:
[16:58] <stellar-slack1> ya, i'll have jed get you info!
[16:58] <stellar-slack> also, yes @zealord , we are so glad to have vanessa on board. she will be leading the effort on our digital financial literacy programs AND she is a p2p education expert which is perfect for our goals
[17:03] <stellar-slack> that's really cool, Joyce.
[17:03] <Kwelstr> wow! ^5 everybody, this is exciting
[17:11] <stellar-slack> This looks like the code in question:
[17:11] <stellar-slack> https://github.com/stellar/stellar-core/blob/master/src/herder/HerderImpl.cpp#L257-L326
[17:15] <stellar-slack> Confused by this ordering:
[17:15] <stellar-slack> https://github.com/stellar/stellar-core/blob/master/src/herder/HerderImpl.cpp#L315-L325
[17:15] <stellar-slack> It's very unlikely that the tie-break(s) on lines 320-325 get hit. Is this effectively a coin toss for a leadership election between two nodes. Sure I'm not understanding something :simple_smile:
[17:15] <stellar-slack> Welcome @proppy happy to have you
[17:16] <stellar-slack> @donovan: it'd be better to move the technical discussion to dev
[17:16] <stellar-slack> hey @proppy!
[17:17] <stellar-slack> just so we don't get the channels crossed, and irc will update correctly too
[17:17] <stellar-slack> @andrew: oops, sure thing :simple_smile:
[17:17] <stellar-slack> hey there, thanks for the warm welcome :simple_smile:
[17:18] <stellar-slack> Hi. Can someone tell me what prompted the development of SCP?
[17:18] <stellar-slack> dm == david?
[17:18] <stellar-slack> @proppy: correct
[17:19] <stellar-slack> vanessa: thanks :simple_smile:
[17:22] <stellar-slack> I have been doing a fair amount of research into BFT-CS lately, so this is pretty exciting.
[17:27] <stellar-slack> I am working on a solution to this quorum problem but it's a lot less elegant than SCP.
[17:30] <stellar-slack> Fundamentally any BFT-CS system must rely on reputation. It's nice to keep it intrinsic to the network, but I suspect in many practical cases (like plain old consensus systems) extrinsic reputation is easier to maintain.
[17:36] <stellar-slack> Hey @afdudley - our team is focused on how we can use the tech we have (or can build) to make things more accessible to folks, particularly from a financial inclusion perspective
[17:39] <stellar-slack> Okay. I don't really follow Ripple, or crypto-tokens in general... but I think it's pretty amazing that a team, that I assumed, was in that scene had the good sense to hire @dm to work on their consensus system. Was this prompted by the failure of the system used by Ripple?
[17:40] <stellar-slack> David joined us prior to launch:)
[17:41] <stellar-slack> And he is amazing. Everyone on the team is pretty amazing - I'm honored to work with them every day:smile:
[17:49] <stellar-slack> Okay, so the work on stellar-core started on nov 24 2014... that makes sense...
[18:01] <stellar-slack> Does stellar remove the need for exchanges?
[18:01] <stellar-slack> hi guys
[18:02] <stellar-slack> Hi @theo.godspeed
[18:02] <stellar-slack> @afdudley, well, there's a distributed exchange baked into the network
[18:02] <stellar-slack> I am newbie here
[18:02] <stellar-slack> I am reading about that now...
[18:03] <stellar-slack> Okay, this link is extremely light on details :smile:
[18:03] <stellar-slack> @afdudley: stellar removes the need for exchanges by substituting a slightly different concept: the gateway
[18:03] <stellar-slack> I have one Question
[18:03] <stellar-slack> The exchange itself lives within the stellar network
[18:04] <stellar-slack> i read about invitation code on bitcoin forum
[18:04] <stellar-slack> how to get invite code ?
[18:04] <stellar-slack> I see, these are sort of like oracles in ethereum but since stellar is just for financial stuffs, they are more limited in scope.
[18:04] <stellar-slack> How do I become a gateway on stellar?
[18:05] <stellar-slack> http://i.imgur.com/5xMONLK.gif
[18:05] <stellar-slack> Also, I am guessing I could use this as a white label service for transnational money transfer?
[18:05] <stellar-slack> @theo.godspeed: head on over to https://launch.stellar.org and authenticate with facebook
[18:06] <stellar-slack> @afdudley: Correct
[18:06] <stellar-slack> also @afdudley our /learn page gives a nice introduction to how Stellar works http://stellar.org/learn
[18:07] <stellar-slack> @vanessa: My username is 1Theodore
[18:08] <stellar-slack> @theo.godspeed: you can go ahead and log in there, wait for facebook confirmation email
[18:08] <stellar-slack> @eva is there something more data dense, I was just reading the white paper, I rather not click through slides :smile:
[18:08] <stellar-slack> I see, so you're using FB for reputation and the non-profit is managing the network?
[18:09] <stellar-slack> Okay, i read all the slides.
[18:09] <stellar-slack> @vanessa: i already completed that proccess
[18:09] <stellar-slack> if you scroll down there's also info underneath the slides :simple_smile: @afdudley
[18:10] <stellar-slack> I read all that already :smile:
[18:10] <stellar-slack> great! So what else are you curious about? :simple_smile:
[18:10] <stellar-slack> :weary:
[18:11] <stellar-slack> You should get an email from Stellar with further instructions on how to complete :simple_smile:
[18:11] <stellar-slack> sometimes it takes a minute of two
[18:11] <stellar-slack> my account is six months old
[18:13] <stellar-slack> http://i.imgur.com/X6gLJOh.gif
[18:13] <stellar-slack> @afdudley: gateways aren't really like oracles, no. They are simply accounts within the stellar network into which other accounts have placed trust. For example, if your account trusts me to issue USD, I am now a gateway
[18:14] <stellar-slack> hey @theo.godspeed i can see that your account was actually already paid out the reward https://explor.io/#/stellar/accounts/gDZv3AqqsZbhN9detKdLbwM7fdkNtpd881
[18:14] <stellar-slack> it currently has only the minimum balance though, which means that some STR were transferred elsewhere.
[18:14] <stellar-slack> is that trust intrinsic to the network?
[18:14] <stellar-slack> u not understanding me
[18:14] <stellar-slack> afdudley: yeah, the trust is explicit by issuing "ChangeTrust" transactions
[18:15] <stellar-slack> is trust transitive? is this a web-of-trust model?
[18:15] <stellar-slack> so, without the distributed exchange, a single gateway is like an island, with the credits issued by that account only exchangeable with other accounts who also trust the gateway
[18:16] <stellar-slack> @theo.godspeed: feel free to send a bug report into the knowledge center if you feel there's a bug with your Stellar wallet. https://stellarorg.zendesk.com/hc/en-us
[18:16] <stellar-slack> trust is not transitive... the distributed exchange facilitates the web
[18:16] <stellar-slack> @eva https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=739187.0
[18:16] <stellar-slack> @theo.godspeed: this channel is actually mainly for general discussion about Stellar, not for support
[18:16] <stellar-slack> i am talking about this ^^
[18:17] <stellar-slack> A market maker would trust two gateways, post offers to exchange one credit for another at whatever rate they find acceptable, and the network would route payments through those offers
[18:19] <stellar-slack> is this system in production now?
[18:21] <stellar-slack> the "new" stellar-core that we just revealed today is not in production, but https://github.com/stellar/stellard also implements the system of gateways and distributed exchange I just described, and it is in production (we launched it mid-year 2014)
[18:22] <stellar-slack> Can you explain the differences?
[18:23] <stellar-slack> very briefly. is it just the new algorithm?
[18:24] <stellar-slack> afdudley: https://github.com/stellar/stellar-core/blob/master/docs/architecture.md
[18:24] <stellar-slack> yep, found that.
[18:24] <stellar-slack> thanks.
[18:24] <stellar-slack> from our FAQ
[18:24] <stellar-slack> "2. How is the new code different?
[18:24] <stellar-slack> We created an entirely new codebase designed with safety, minimalism, scalability, interoperability, and multiple implementations in mind. The core consensus server is as simple and economical as possible.
[18:24] <stellar-slack> Live data is stored in standard SQL databases and served to clients from external web servers reading those databases. Long-term cryptographic data is written to commodity public storage service as flat files in standard XDR binary form, and can be freely downloaded or mirrored. Transactions are now collections of simple operations that can be composed in a variety of ways supporting multisig and other innovative arrange
[18:24] <stellar-slack> The intention is to push innovation to the edges. We want local communities to have the infrastructure they need to build the products that work for them."
[18:26] <stellar-slack> I see, thanks.
[18:27] <stellar-slack> Briefly, the code is a complete rewrite, the consensus algo is entirely different, and the transaction semantics have some changes in detail, but their spirit remains the same. For example, the notion of establishing a trustline is the same between the two systems, but the detailed mechanics of establishing trust is pretty different
[18:27] <stellar-slack> From a user's perspective (i.e. someone sending payments on the network), much of the system will appear the same
[18:28] <stellar-slack> Yeah, this looks like a significant improvement.
[18:28] <stellar-slack> I like the separation of concerns.
[18:36] <stellar-slack> I am trying to understand this gateway thing, anyone can become a gateway?
[18:37] <stellar-slack> yep
[18:37] <stellar-slack> But if I started a gateway now, it would be untrusted?
[18:38] <stellar-slack> yeah exactly. You would need to convince others to trust credits that you issue
[18:39] <stellar-slack> huh. I am going to try doing that now. I feel like I am missing something fundamental to this system.
[18:47] <stellar-slack> Thanks a lot folks, I get it now. :smile:
[18:47] <stellar-slack> awesome!
[18:49] <stellar-slack> I guess the part I don't really get is if all the gateways are trusted, why is SCP BFT?
[18:49] <stellar-slack> actually, I think I know the answer to that...
[18:50] <stellar-slack> It's a tricky trust model, I like it.
[18:51] <stellar-slack> the gateways are at a different level of trust than the consensus/core level
[18:51] <stellar-slack> but it's a "higher" level, right?
[18:51] <stellar-slack> I would describe gateways as a higher level
[18:51] <stellar-slack> gateway trust depends on messages being BFT.
[18:52] <stellar-slack> no
[18:52] <stellar-slack> gateways have nothing to do with SCP. It is a bit confusing since they both involve trust.
[18:53] <stellar-slack> so why is SCP BFT?
[18:53] <stellar-slack> SCP is used to maintain the ledger and so everyone agrees on the same set of txs
[18:54] <stellar-slack> gateways are just something that use stellar
[18:55] <stellar-slack> huh. so stellar is "just" a 100% PoS crypto-token?
[18:55] <stellar-slack> are entities in the ledger anonymous? it would appear to me that they are not.
[18:57] <stellar-slack> @afdudley: there is a good chart in the launch blog post that shows the differences btwn stellar and POS
[18:57] <stellar-slack> stellar is different
[19:00] <stellar-slack> indeed, that doesn't answer if entities in the ledger are anonymous or not :smile:
[19:01] <stellar-slack> also, it's not relational in anyway and has two non-commital assertions :smile:
[19:02] <stellar-slack> in terms of anonymity, it's as anonymous as you choose to make it. That is, everything is recorded in the ledger (like Bitcoin), but, like Bitcoin, you can choose to remain pseudononymous.
[19:03] <stellar-slack> well, i just used a facebook account to sign up at http://stellar.org|stellar.org. Can I participate in the network without doing that?
[19:03] <stellar-slack> I guess i can just run my own node and start pushing to the orderbooks...
[19:05] <stellar-slack> Seems like a kinda funky trojan horse to me... it's a decentralized system, but it seem throughly wrapped in institutions.
[19:09] <stellar-slack> yes anyone can be a user, anyone can be a node
[19:09] <stellar-slack> You can still participate in the network without participating in the giveaway.
[19:12] <stellar-slack> yeah, but the giveaway works a means of injecting reputation into the system.
[19:16] <stellar-slack> I'm not sure what you mean by reputation. To clarify, the Facebook auth is purely meant as a way of making sure folks can only claim their giveaway once, so we can reach as many people as possible. Facebook seemed like the best way to verify a public, online identity.
[19:16] <stellar-slack> Also, isn't the SCP based network useless without gateways? I can appreciate that they are different types of trust but at some point they form a single system, where one category of trust is implicit in transactions of the other part of the system?
[19:17] <stellar-slack> okay, that makes sense, the reputation/identity thing might just be a side-effect.
[19:17] <stellar-slack> your wallet is also not at all linked publicly to your Facebook, to be crystal clear. So it's purely an internal (to the foundation) means of verifying an identity for the purposes of the giveaway.
[19:19] <stellar-slack> Right, but that fundamentally changes the sorts of network analysis available to the foundation.
[19:19] <stellar-slack> in terms of gateways being necessary for SCP, that isn't quite accurate. For instance, stellars are the native currency in the network. There are no gateways involved in issuing stellars. But if there's a stellar transaction (sending STR from one wallet to another), that will need to be recorded by the ledger.
[19:20] <stellar-slack> I remember bitcoin pre-exchanges... so sure. :smile:
[19:21] <stellar-slack> yeah :simple_smile: Of course, the Stellar network will be more robust and widely useable the more gateways come on board, but that is not the same as consensus
[19:22] <stellar-slack> congratulations guys!
[19:23] <stellar-slack> thank you so much @eno!
[19:24] <stellar-slack> But if SCP wasn't BFT, then gateways could be scammed, right?
[19:24] <stellar-slack> I've translate the launch blog post into Chinese http://strmoon.com/articles/424
[19:25] <stellar-slack> wow, already? thank you!!
[19:25] <stellar-slack> and i think it's time for sleep . good morning from China !
[19:25] <stellar-slack> thanks! have a good night, eno :simple_smile:
[19:26] <stellar-slack> :sleeping:
[19:27] <stellar-slack> @afdudley SCP does ensure the validity of transactions, correct. But I think the distinction of types of trust is still important to bear in mind.
[19:28] <stellar-slack> Thanks @eno!
[19:29] <stellar-slack> @eva thanks for answer my stupid questions. This is a very interesting service.
[19:33] <stellar-slack> https://clyp.it/zdpzphmd
[19:33] <stellar-slack> @afdudley: not at all! It's pretty complex
[19:35] <stellar-slack> I am curious to see how other people treat SCP. I have basically no use for stellar as a... value transmitter.
[19:36] <stellar-slack> but it seems impressively well thought out from a biz perspective.
[21:44] <stellar-slack> multi-sig!
[21:45] <stellar-slack> nice work btw, woke up a bit early, and saw the email. can't really go back to sleep now :simple_smile:
[21:51] <stellar-slack> Thanks for the morning reading SDF :simple_smile:. Excited to jump into a cleaner codebase (hopefully) and take a look around!
[21:52] <stellar-slack> @dzham: yay! Glad you're enjoying the reading. and @seanb hope your explorations are fruitful.
[21:59] <stellar-slack> no BOOST anymore, so that should clean things up
[22:15] <stellar-slack> hey @kwelstr i'm late to your question, but you're one of the first to catch that Rabelais is a reference to the literary figure!if you read the graphic novel, you'll notice other lit references as well. we're aiming to bring humanism and careful thinking about the power of words. to financial services.
[22:16] <stellar-slack> @jessica is our wonderful English PhD and had a huge part in crafting the graphic novel :simple_smile:
[22:22] <stellar-slack> I think @lab was the one who caught on to Rabelais
[22:24] <stellar-slack> Are you guys really using FBA to decide on lunch? I hope you do, that sounds awesome
[22:25] <stellar-slack> I mostly just use FBA to make me feel dumb :stuck_out_tongue:
[22:26] <stellar-slack> (i've had to read the paper several times)
[22:26] <stellar-slack> oh it's pretty good at humbling you :wink:
[22:28] <stellar-slack> but yeah, I've been dreaming up different random things FBA could apply to
[23:14] <stellar-slack> > _ For example, Scott often relies on Andrew and Iris to decide what to eat. _
[23:14] <stellar-slack> Is this an inference that @scott might occasionally pilfer from the fridge while no one is looking?
[23:15] <stellar-slack> accurate
[23:15] <stellar-slack> :wink:
[23:15] <stellar-slack> though more likely, Scott's just easygoing about where we should eat :simple_smile:
[23:24] <stellar-slack> Thanks @eno !
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